Alex Wickham

EXCLUSIVE: 24 hours with Andy Burnham in Ukraine for his first major foreign policy interview. The domestic-focused PM leaves warming to his global role.

“I’m at my best when I can see the injustice and I can go at it. I see it here and I feel it here. I come away more determined to do something.”

-his gutting convo with wounded soldiers
-his anger visiting civilian bomb sites
-his emotion seeing Zelensky with war widows
-his frustration at the idea he’s disinterested in foreign affairs and vow to maintain Britain’s leadership role
-he says he’ll try to win Trump round on Patriots in the US next month
-wants his trips abroad to have purpose
-says the war is at a critical moment and now’s the time to dig in as the Russian economy hits the buffers
-reveals Russian casualties have hit 1.5m
-says there’s evidence Russian public opinion is shifting
-says if Ukraine can make it to early next year things will be in its favour
-his more personal, emotional approach to diplomacy
-how he sees similarities between his style and Zelensky’s, albeit under very different circumstances
-that guitar moment
-his praise for Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer
-his concern about the impact of Iran on the UK economy
-his optimism for a progressive resurgence and end to right-wing populism not just in Britain but around the world, maybe even in the US. “The pendulum has to swing back”

bloomberg.com/news/articles/…

NEW: Cabinet minister Lisa Nandy appears to suggest she opposes rejoining the EU, saying Britons do not want to “relitigate endless conversations about in or out”

As Bloomberg reported on Saturday there is significant concern high up in government about Andy Burnham’s Brexit strategy, with several cabinet ministers trying to dissuade the PM from backing rejoining and committing to an in-out referendum in the next parliament

This is the transcript of her Sky interview with @MarkUrban01 this morning

Lisa Nandy: People don't want to relitigate, sort of endless… Yeah, I mean, people don't want to relitigate endless conversations about in or out leave or remain. They don't want to repeat those years. But what they really do feel very sharply is that the Brexit deal that we got is not working for people. It's not working for small businesses. We're struggling to trade. It's not working for upcoming bands who want to tour. It's just it's not working for kids who need to access clinical trials. It just is not working.

Mark Urban: Sorry to jump in. But if I were to say to you, reversing Brexit would have a catastrophic effect for politics. Who said that? You know what I'm going to say, don't you? That was you

Lisa Nandy: Yeah so I've always. Yeah, I've always, sorry…

Mark Urban: No, go ahead, go ahead.

Lisa Nandry: I was just going to say, I've always thought that when we got to the point, I campaigned for a remain in the referendum, and when we got the result, 52% to leave, 48 to remain. I always said that we have to respect that result, and we need to respect the fact that there are significant numbers of people who disagree. We need to leave, but we need to have a close relationship with our closest neighbours across Europe. And we honoured one part of that deal. We did leave eventually. We didn't honour the other because we didn't have the close relationship, and I think it is right to respect the fact that we went round that track many times and people made a decision. I think it's also right to respect the fact that for people across this country, the deal that we got is not what we were promised and we need to do better.

Zelenskyy says this morning: “The idea of discussing European-Russian security infrastructure is not simple, and it can be dangerous. I was very clear with all our partners: I think that first we have to discuss how to end Russia’s war against Ukraine. Secondly, what the security infrastructure will look like for Ukraine. What security guarantees will Ukraine have? And then, depending on these answers, the sides can discuss the security infrastructure between Europe – or between the EU – and Russia.”

NEW: Bloomberg Saturday read with the great @ChaplainChloe

Andy Burnham thinks making a big move on Europe this month can bring major political and economic benefits, but his cabinet and the EU are yet to be convinced.

— Burnham heads to the EPC in Dublin next week to lay the groundwork for the UK-EU summit in Brussels the week after. He hopes that by signalling a willingness to drop Labour’s red lines after the next election and having a more “upbeat” conversation, he can unlock thorny negotiations this time round on Made in Europe.

— But the shift in tone has had a mixed reception in Europe, with some EU officials saying the British approach to the negotiations hasn’t changed despite the new rhetoric. Britain is offering European students discounted rates to study at UK universities in exchange for access to the EU’s Made in Europe industrial strategy.

— While resolving that is important and everyone expects a deal to be done, of far greater interest in Westminster will be Burnham setting out options for the future relationship around the summit, likely to include rejoining, joining the single market, entering a customs union or a new bespoke customs arrangement. Aides say Burnham believes the current parameters of negotiations don’t deliver enough economic benefit to Britain and the next Labour manifesto has to be more ambitious.

— But several cabinet ministers are against backing rejoining and are trying to nudge Burnham away from that option. They’d rather he keeps it as a lifetime ambition, fearing committing to an In-Out referendum in the next parliament risks repeating the mistake of David Cameron in 2016, who believed polls that said he would win, only to lose to the Brexiteers on arguments of money, sovereignty and immigration.

— Backing joining the single market might be less controversial, bring big economic benefits and be achievable via an election rather than referendum, some ministers believe, though the problems of payments for access and free movement remain. Ultimately there is concern among ministers in Leave-voting areas that all this just gives Kemi Badenoch and Nigel Farage a lifeline when Labour was in the ascendancy.

— Aides and former ministers under Keir Starmer believe he would have ended up calling for a bespoke customs and security partnership at the next election. This would deliver economic gains, albeit more modest, but without the complication of uncapped immigration. Some ministers believe this would be the best option to avoid political pushback, but it’s unclear whether Burnham considers it ambitious enough, or whether the EU would be willing to allow more cherry-picking.

— One concern among UK officials is that by starting a conversation that leaves all this up in the air, the EU will just refuse to negotiate any further until the British position is involved, because it will think it can extract more from the UK in future negotiations.

— But aides say Burnham believes backing a much closer relationship with the EU will win the support of the public as well as uniting behind Labour progressive voters who might otherwise have voted LibDem or Green. Advisers also consider talking about the EU, even bringing it up in interviews as he did with @HugoGye, part of his “flood the zone” communications strategy of creating headlines on his terms rather than his opponents’.

— That’s not convinced others in cabinet. Government officials note that it was hardly ideal Burnham’s repeated public commentary on Brexit dominated headlines and interviews with cabinet ministers in the days around the budget and Shabana Mahmood’s immigration reforms, with headlines about cabinet disagreement distracting from major announcements. The future options he sets out at the summit will test who’s right.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/…

NEW with @AlbertoNardelli

European nations want Russia to halt its war against Ukraine before entertaining any talk of the Kremlin’s concerns about the continent’s broader security architecture, people familiar with the matter said

European officials are also adamant that Putin’s pre-war demands to effectively roll back NATO’s presence in Eastern Europe are still unacceptable, said the people

It would make little sense to have discussions about a European security framework while Moscow continues to wage war against Ukraine and is violating an array of existing agreements, some of the people said

Europe’s position risks further tension with the Trump administration. Trump envoy Jared Kushner wrote yesterday that the US wants to discuss the security concerns of all sides, though that’s faced pushback from congressional Democrats

Moscow is against any Western military presence in Ukraine, a condition that Kyiv and its European allies see as necessary to deter Russia from attacking its neighbor in the future, the people said

Negotiations about territory have been mostly parked for now

The people stressed that a ceasefire needed to come before any agreements relating to post-war security, and such arrangements would need buy-in from all European nations

European officials continue to believe Putin currently has no interest in seriously engaging in talks to end the war in the coming months

bloomberg.com/news/articles/…